A name that readily attracted attention and, perhaps, controversy among the officials of the Second Republic was UMARU DIKKO, the then Transport Minister. Described by many as cocky and flamboyant, he had, at a time, allegedly dismissed with a wave of the hand insinuations that policies of the administration were impoverishing the citizens, stressing that he was yet to see any Nigerian feeding from the dustbin. Dikko also came in the news when an attempt by the intervening Buhari/Idiagbon military regime to crate him back to the country from London, where he had fled following the fall of Shagari’s government, was bungled.
Umaru Dikko
The former minister, who eventually returned on his own, engaged Sunday Independent in what was, unarguably, his last major interview, few days to Nigeria’s 52nd Independence anniversary.
Today, five days after his passage, TheNiche’s OGUWIKE NWACHUKU, who conducted the interview, reproduces excerpts of the encounter in which the late politician fielded questions on a number of national issues…
What do you think of the national honour that President Goodluck Jonathan conferred on some Nigerians on September 17?
I think it is a good thing. The president, on behalf of the nation, has appreciated the contribution of some Nigerians, and this appreciation is demonstrated by the honour. I hope many other Nigerians will work hard and deserve to be awarded in the years to come.
Tomorrow, Nigeria will be 52 years old; 52 years of Independence. Take a brief look at Nigeria; what do you make of where we are today?
Well, 52 years of Independence, correct! I wouldn’t say we have achieved everything; otherwise there is no need to make further effort. But I think we have tried our best as an independent country. Indeed, there is a lot to be done. Now, electric power in Nigeria is a problem. We are still struggling with power, and any country where there is no electric power in this age, well, I wouldn’t say it is a backward country, but it is not a very advanced country. Nigeria, despite all her bragging, all her talking, the biggest country, this country, that country, has no power to make sure that things are going right.
So, I think that is one thing I would say we ought to pay attention to in this country, if it must be comparable to other countries in the world. But all the same, as far as talking is concerned, we talk like anything, but there is a lot to be done. We thank God that we have reached 50 years of Independence. We are happy. We are thankful; at least, we’ve had only one civil war so far. I hope no more; but there is a lot to be done.
Look at Abuja, our own capital; power on, power off. So why are we talking? To me, instead of talking of so many ambitions and so on and so forth, let us take one ambition and achieve it first: electricity. Let there be power in the country. Once we get power, the rest can follow. If I were to be the President of Nigeria, that is the one thing I would say beyond anything else. Let there be power, so that our country can develop. Any country that hasn’t got power is more or less a backward country.
What you are saying, in effect, is that Nigeria as we see it today is not doing enough in terms of positioning itself to compete favourably with other countries of the world.
Yes, we haven’t got our priorities right yet. I know we’ve got a lot of problems. I agree. But I think our priorities should be really sorted out and we should talk less to be able to achieve more. If the governor has got one million and one programmes and he can’t achieve one or two, then what do you see that as?
Can you compare the leadership we have today with the leadership we had either in the First Republic or in the Second Republic?
Well, the days of the First Republic and Second Republic are different from what we have today. In comparing, you compare things that look alike. But I think the problems were different. I think each one was trying to push the country forward, and in each regime, you had different problems to face. So I think each one is just trying.
What do you make of the level of corruption in the country today, if you juxtapose Nigeria of today with the Nigeria of First Republic and Second Republic?
Well, Corruption! Corruption!! Corruption!!! People talk of corruption, but the problem is this: no government so far has been able to tackle corruption. None! Unfortunately, when you hear people being taken to court for corruption, the next time they are bailed and they are off. You will not stop it like this completely. The country has to decide whether corruption is something that we can fight and succeed in defeating (or what we are fighting) because it is a bad name. It’s unfortunate. But so far, our not tackling it is very difficult. If the whole country were to resolve to deal with corruption, then we can do that. But at the moment, I don’t think that determination is strong enough.
What would you have done about the current level of insecurity in Nigeria today which seems to be threatening the unity of the country, if you were the president?
The thing is this: there is so much insecurity in the country today. There are many youths that have no jobs; they can hardly eat. You see them in the villages and yet you hear the government talk of billions in this project and that project. It’s unfortunate. Nigeria, under normal condition, is a peaceful country; people don’t like causing trouble unnecessarily, but to some extent, they are being forced by circumstances. What is the Boko Haram that is in the North, not elsewhere? It is all due to poverty; the people can hardly eat. How many people have three square meals a day? Forget it. Some of them only have one per day; some of them hardly have any and yet nobody cares. That’s the point. The very rich ones among us are being unfair to those who are not rich. So, I think we should try to look around and help those who are less able. This is my view.
Some people have a feeling that what we are practising in Nigeria is civilian rule not democracy, or do you think differently?
Well, the terror is the democracy. What can we say? You see, may be, they’ve got their own definition which may not agree with our own. So it is civilian rule alright. Are they really civilian? They are civilian, I agree. But then, are they really democratic? Are they fair to direct? Many people say that most of the elections are rigged. However, let us console ourselves by saying that we are still learning.
Nigerians are very tolerant and let you push them to the wall before they can take their guns and start shooting. But let us not push them to the wall; let us try to help them.
What is your advice to Nigerians, both those in authority and those that are not?
My advice is that those in authority and those out of authority should try to be sympathetic to the less fortunate ones among us. We shouldn’t be too selfish. If you have got three proceeds, try and spare one, so your brother can inherit; not to collect plenty while your brother has zero.
So those who are not sympathetic to those who are less fortunate are not good citizens. This is my view. So I think we should try and see that we help those who are less fortunate than ourselves.
Do you think the leadership should insist on rotation or that we should crave for the best?
I don’t think it is a question of best or no best. You see, once people appreciate that you are sympathetic, ready to help and care about others, that is what is important in ruling. But those who are selfish like to have it all. They are multi-millionaires and so on and so forth. We need people to sympathise, those who want to work hard, who want to earn a living; not those who want to be multi-millionaires and others are going naked. There are people still going naked. Now, is anybody caring? People don’t care. So I think we should be a little more sympathetic with our brothers and sisters in the country.
As one of the respected elder statesmen of this country, how do you feel when things are not going the way our founding fathers conceptualised the nation?
There is a different scale for measuring either progress or what have you. Whatever you like, call it. But I think, so long as every government is sympathetic to the nation, and it does its best, that’s all we can hope for, pray for and cooperate to make it work.
Like I said, here in Nigeria today, you find some people that have got 10 cars in their garages, while others go on foot. They carry their motorcycles. Won’t you help them by making them work somehow to get one car? We should not be too selfish. If in your town you are the only one with car and nobody else in the town has a car, will you be happy? You should try to make sure that everybody in the town has at least a motorcycle; then if you’ve got a car, nobody will envy you. Nobody will feel angry. So we should try to make sure that there is fairness in the society. That’s what I can say.
The youths of this country are getting more and more frustrated because of the way things are going. We have graduates that have remained unemployed for five to 10 years and there’s no indication that the environment is conducive enough for them to find their footing. Is selfishness on the part of our leaders to blame or leaders with acquisition mentality and greed?
Attention of leaders that are greedy should be drawn into this. You said there are people who have no jobs and yet we have got plenty of land. With the land we have in Nigeria, if we are to go into farming, we can feed the rest of Africa or even more. But the point is that there is no direction. I would say the governors in Nigeria as a whole, all of them, have not paid any attention. We should pay attention to seeing that we provide jobs to those less fortunate.
Now, if every government makes sure it pays attention day and night to things that will create jobs for people, we should be better off. But they said no. How many state governors have got farms? None! They don’t care and we all depend on revenue from the federal government. So what depends on what? I’m not praying; I hope oil will come more and more. Nobody wants to take a hoe and farm. I think we are going to look at it again.
Tell us what we don’t know about the Shehu Shagari administration in which you played a key role.
I would say those who destroyed Shagari’s administration have done a disservice to Nigeria. I say this anywhere. I said it when I was exiled. I say it now that I’m here. They have done a disservice because Shagari administration, I challenge anybody, attained the best, and what is there new now? Nothing new.
So those people who organised to destroy Shagari’s administration have done a disservice to Nigeria, and this they will always be guilty of. I think the future will tell whether Shagari administration has been fair to Nigeria – whether it has done its best and whether anybody had a legitimate right to push that government off the seat.
Anybody who has information regarding where I have money or property anywhere in the country or outside the country should feel free to disclose such to the authorities for necessary action. You are now in this house and you have seen where I live. This is all I have in this city. And anybody who knows about another should please tell the world.
What is your advice to the Northern governors and then the youths that are involved in Boko Haram activities?
My advice to the governors is that they should try and find why Boko Haram came about. Why were they not there when Shagari was in government? The youths were there. So I would say those who are in authority should try to find out why exactly the thing came about. Who is Boko Haram? What is the meaning of Boko Haram?
Secondly, having found out why, call them, invite them, talk with them and later together find solution to the problem that is worrying our youths because once the youths in a nation are agitated, that nation cannot remain peaceful. It is difficult.
Do you think agitation for more states in the country today is desirable, particularly the South East region that has just five states when others have more to themselves?
The people in the South East are agitated and it appears they gained through that agitation. So if the people in the South East or elsewhere agitated and they achieved some gain through agitation, why not others in other parts of the country, if they are in the same desperate position?
So the governors have got to govern the country as a whole and to find out what is the cause of this agitation. What can we do? Are we fair to those who are less fortunate, if you like? Or are there areas where we can say: yes, the rest of the society has been unfair? If you find there are areas where we are being unfair, then we should bring fairness, and if you find they are wrong, then we should try and isolate them.
It’s a question of talking, discussing and correcting them. It’s true the government cannot do everything for everybody, but at least the governor should show direction. That’s the point. Go to England, you see the Prime Minister in one car followed by one other, making two. That’s the Prime Minister in England. One car for himself and there’s spare car carrying the police. Now, here, which governor goes on the road with (just) two cars? Which one? Three, four, five, six. Now people are seeing all these. It’s not fair and all these cars following one governor are fuelled by the state and so on.
Now, is it necessary for one governor to carry four, five cars along with him? Is that good? Is that nice? So you see, I don’t know why we in Nigeria don’t look at things and even be bold enough to draw attention. Why should one governor go about with 10 cars? Why are you people in the press not saying anything? They go passing with 10 cars when the Prime Minister in England has only one with one spare. Even take the Queen in England, she’s Head of State; she goes with one car with only one other spare and four motorcycles.
Some people think what is happening is a reflection of failure on the part of our lawmakers at all levels.
You talk of lawmakers; do you need to make law to say that no governor should go about with 10 cars? Is this law truly right? You don’t need law; it’s commonsense. When you consider there are people that are so poor, that have nothing, you see you don’t need them. They do these things themselves. Let me see the ones that have got two cars or three; maybe I don’t know. But I think we should look at this nation and check areas where corrections are necessary. If we are afraid to do that, then we are not worth living.
Let me ask you this: if re-incarnation were real, would you want to come back a Nigerian?
Yes, I would like to come back a Nigerian, but to work harder for Nigeria and to put things correct. Now, I feel so bad that I’m not in a position to correct these things; but at least I’m bold enough to say it out regardless of consequence.
What is your advice to political parties, including your United Democratic Party?
They should think of their nation. They should try and build our nation. A lot of us are just looking for position: being this, being that. I think though it is democracy, the parties are too many; but I wouldn’t say for comfort. We should look at these things not by law but at least we should come to sit down and say it right. Do we need 50 parties in one country? No, they are too many. So I think there should be a meeting of all politicians to sit down and decide what number of political parties should be ideal for the country now.
