President-elect, Muhammadu Buhari, insists that his administration will not condone the looting of public funds and other acts of indiscipline and corrupt practices. He also talks on his agenda in giving the country focused and purposeful leadership. Assistant Editor (North), CHUKS EHIRIM, brings the excerpts.
Since your victory at the March 28 presidential election, some Peoples Democratic Party (PDP) chieftains across the country have been defecting to your party, the All Progressives Congress (APC). How do you intend to manage this?
I think this is a question meant for the party because we have a system. Even as I am the presidential candidate and the president-elect, I don’t think the system has allowed me to usurp the power of the party executive. In multi-party democratic system, fundamentally, it is the number that matters for the people. But for the party, what matters is the ability to manage the number, so that the majority will have its way and there will be justice. I assure them through you that there will be justice in APC.
What would you consider in selecting those Nigerians that will work with you?
It is a difficult time for Nigerians as you all know. I had said it in the past that Nigeria had never realised the amount of revenue it received in the last 16 years. A barrel of crude oil rose to about $140 and has crashed to about $50 now.
It is very disappointing that the PDP government virtually failed to use those resources to make sure that the economy continued to grow in a sustainable way. I think the worst thing is lack of accountability and the terrible budgetary system. Imagine that over 90 per cent of Nigerian budget is on recurrent. How can you sustain development in a developing country like Nigeria with only about 10 per cent of your income? Things just have to change. There must be more money available for infrastructure, for investment in getting the factories back, employment and getting goods and services for the population. I think the sins of PDP will be coming out for several years to come.
At the national elections, Nigerians came out to vote in peaceful manner. But at the state elections, there were pockets of violence across the country. How did you feel about that?
I think there were less disruptions at the governorship election than the situation during the presidential election. I hope that it was as a result of the bandwagon effect because APC had the upper hand during the presidential election. But what happened in the South South and the South East could not be compared to what happened at the governorship election. What I saw was that there was a few ballot box snatching in some local government areas in Bayelsa and a few disruptions in Adamawa, but that was nothing near to what happened at the presidential poll. I don’t think it was up to 25 per cent of what happened.
From what I heard, the turn-out was lower than what it was on March 28. Maybe the people just wanted a president, and once they got one, they just walked away.
Do you intend to put a government of national unity in place?
Again, you want me to encroach into the party’s main power. Even if I want to form a broad-based government, I think the executive of the party will have some influence on that decision. So, for me to maintain a good rapport with the leadership of my party, I want to keep your question in abeyance until further notice.
Reports across the South South and South East gave indications of violence, especially in Rivers State, during the polls.
I think we should allow INEC (Independent National Electoral Commission) to give its comprehensive report. I think we have to take our time and get as much report as possible in accordance with the Electoral Act. I personally want to be legal about this, so that people will appreciate that we believe in a system.
A lot of unconstitutional and lawless acts of the PDP are on record and we intend to make sure that, according to law, those who are responsible for that are taken to the court and properly charged. We are in this system because we believe in it and we want it to be stabilised because it is better for our country.
If Nigerians have the confidence that their votes will count, then they will mind their own business and I assure you that there will be much security in the country. But when people feel that they are abandoned, then they will resist. I think that, by nature, human beings are rebels, especially in Nigeria. You either try and placate them, convince them and show them that their rights are respected or you will not have peace.
With what we heard about the money that changed hands in this country, it would have been impossible for APC to win anything in this country because we didn’t have any treasury in our pocket.
There was no amount of money that could convince Nigerians this time around. A lot of them took the money and did exactly what their conscience wanted them to do, while some even returned the money.
Rivers and Lagos states were somehow seen as strategic to the PDP. Otherwise, how could APC have a marginal 100,000 votes over PDP in Lagos, which is virtually the capital of the APC in the South West? A lot of things will come out, but we want to do it basically on facts which can be verified and quantified.
INEC Chairman, Professor Attahiru Jega, has said he will not accept renewal of his tenure. Talking about building institutions, what do you intend to do to ensure that the successes so far recorded are sustained and improved upon?
I think that Prof. Jega knows exactly what to do. He has already said that he is not going to accept a renewal of his tenure in June. I believe that he has learnt enough and will submit a comprehensive hand-over notes, some of which he seems to have written. At the last National Council of States (NCS) meeting, he submitted a document on INEC activities right from the last general election in 2011 to date, with attachment showing the personnel trained, acquisition of election materials, the distributions, security, among others. I don’t think that such report can be faulted. In fact, INEC was forced to accept the six weeks extension by the office of the National Security Adviser (NSA). Luckily, those six weeks were accommodated within the constitutional time limit within which election must hold. The law says election must hold 30 days before May 29. So, INEC did not have much trouble agreeing to the six-week extension. As people say, it had come to pass.
There have been suggestions by Nigerians for punishment of electoral offenders. Justice Muhammad Uwais’ committee made recommendations on this which the government did not implement. Will your government set up a special court to try electoral offenders?
I will look for understanding and cooperation from the National Assembly when a change of the constitution or Electoral Act is necessary. So for me to make up my mind here and later try to lobby is out of it because some of them, if they are very hard, will give me a tough time.
I will say that I haven’t read the Uwais report, but I have read a few of the extracts from the papers. I think it is a good thing and we will encourage it. But we need to get a comprehensive report from the field.
The running battle in Rivers, South East and the rest of the South South, especially by Governors Chibuike Amaechi (Rivers), Rochas Okorocha (Imo) and Adams Oshiomhole (Edo) with INEC officials and law enforcement agencies, including the Army, is remarkable and I think it has to be totally exposed, so that Nigerians will know which of the law enforcement agencies, and at what levels, is undermining the constitution of Nigeria because the Electoral Act is derived from the constitution of the country. So that in future, those who are in position will know that they are not above the law. I think that is what will bring more stability into the system. In view of that, I will try and work with the National Assembly to make sure that we do something about it.
There are speculations of looting at the moment, following the defeat of PDP. What do you intend to do to check the trend?
I will like to work within the system because we believe in it. I have just told you about three governors and the battle they have with the law enforcement agents in their states. We discussed and advised them to try and document these things legally, so that they can be taken before the court and we will make sure that we register the cooperation of the court, so that people who work against the law are prosecuted, especially those who have lost their immunity and those who think they have immunity because this is the best way to stabilise the system.
People must not benefit from being lawless. You can’t be in a position by virtue of the constitution, subvert the constitution and continue to enjoy the privileges offered by the constitution. I don’t think that will be acceptable to the APC. So, whether you are in the opposition or the government, you have to behave yourself. I think that is the way we can make progress.
Don’t you see the influx of defectors to the APC polluting the party?
For those coming into the APC, I have no fear because we have our party structure. If you were a party chairman or a minister before you joined the APC, we appreciate the fact that you remain relevant in your immediate locality. But when it comes to the centre, there is some equality in the way the government will handle you. If the federal government is insisting on accountability and being responsible, even if they go back to their constituencies, there is nothing they can do about the decision of the government. We are banking on that.
So, for those that are coming in, I hope they will accept that they are coming to join those who have succeeded and they should cooperate with them. They can’t come and say that because they were once ministers under PDP, they will join APC and become ministers the following month or so. I don’t think that it will be acceptable even by their constituencies.
You introduced the War Against Indiscipline (WAI) as military leader. Several years later, one of the biggest problem in Nigeria is indiscipline. How do you intend to handle this?
I will mention how it came about. When we had our first Supreme (Military) Council meeting and governors were appointed, in my office, it was only me and the late Tunde Idiagbon. We discussed and agreed that the main problem of Nigeria was indiscipline and that if we could get majority of Nigerians to accept whichever level they were, we would make a lot of progress. I recall that I advised that we should go to the Ministry of Information because there were a lot of people with first degree, masters and Ph.D, who are sociologists and criminologists, who were just warming their seats, and that they should get together and come up with a programme that would last for years and not just for six months and fizzle out.
That was how we came about War Against Indiscipline. It was very well thought out. It was a military system.
In democracy, people want a lot of freedom, but if they see the restraint in advanced democracies in Europe and America, they will realise that discipline is forced on people. There are things that, no matter how much you want to do them, you can’t do them. I think that we have suffered enough as a people and I think that people are more prepared to behave themselves now.
Now, some senior civil servants who are directors either at the state or federal level can’t afford to educate four children because the level of education has gone down so much. Those that can afford it will rather send their children to Ghana or Sudan. Those who can afford it more send theirs to America and Europe because the educational system in Nigeria has virtually collapsed. Therefore, we feel that by voting APC into power, Nigerians are placing confidence in us. On security, economy, especially unemployment and corruption, I believe that Nigerians will give us the understanding to make sure that we get our priorities right. Education is going to be very important because when you educate the people, you solve half of your problems because there is a level that an educated person will not accept. But when people are sentenced to illiteracy, they fight one another.
During your campaigns, you promised to declare your assets if elected. Will you still go ahead with that?
I made a statement which has not been correctly captured by the media. I said that our generation, from the late Murtala Mohammed, made sure that those who had appointments must declare their assets, and this was later articulated in the constitution. It is up to the government to make sure that those who borrow money to build a house and end up with another house somewhere else with 50 bedrooms and 20 living rooms should explain to Nigerians how they got the money. I recall that I declared my assets three times. First was when I got my first political appointment as governor of the then North Eastern State; second, when I was leaving government for the United States War College. I declared my assets then because I was closing my political chapter, then, technically.
I could recall that General David Jemibewon was the Adjutant General of the Nigerian Army then. I had to declare my asset, deposit it there to be taken to court before I was allowed to proceed to the United States for my course. The third one was when I became Head of State.
There have been reports that you promised to end Boko Haram within two months, but your media team reacted saying you never said so. What really is your position on the matter?
I think I am too experienced in internal security to give two-month deadline on Boko Haram. I don’t think I would have made that mistake because I tried to look at some of my experiences even when I was in uniform, with the rebels from Chad when I was GOC in Jos and with Maitasine. So, for me to say that when I come into office, I will get rid of Boko Haram in two months, I don’t think I would have made that mistake. I didn’t. As I mentioned in several occasions, we that had at one time or another worn Nigeria’s military uniform felt terribly embarrassed that, for six years, the Nigeria military couldn’t bring order to 14 local government out of 774 local governments in the country.
I still can’t reconcile myself with that disgrace. Look at Chad helping Nigeria, or Niger or Cameroon itself. This nation has been humiliated by PDP.
God willing, with our experiences, we will quickly marshal support and we are asking Boko Haram to pack and go.
