Yours could be described as a fulfilling career, having attained the rank of Chief of Naval Staff (CNS). How do you feel about the whole thing?
I must give gratitude to God for making it possible that, at last, I came to the end of my career, getting to the peak of the profession. It is by divine providence that I was privileged to get there, out of the hundreds of thousands of Nigerians, particularly naval officers who were colleagues and contemporaries as the case may be. So in all of that, I give God the glory. I must also appreciate the President and Commander-In-Chief of the Armed Forces, Dr. Goodluck Ebele Jonathan, who gave me the singular honour and privilege to serve in that capacity. It was a worthwhile experience in the context of what we have over the years, particularly as regards the maritime space of this country which has to be protected to ensure that our economic lifeline is properly secured to meet the requirement for which the governance of this country depends on, which, of course, is accruable revenues from the oil and gas sector and the maritime sub-sector of the economy.
What actually informed your choice of being in the Navy?
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I joined the Navy from the Nigerian Defence Academy (NDA) in 1977. It was a personal choice in terms of professional calling because I had had a bit of contact with the Navy when I was in secondary school. In my Class One, there was a time we had to play league match at St. Columbus College, Agbor. The other team came with a Navy Band. At half time, the tunes they played were very captivating. The band displayed the stuff it was made of. That provided a platform for first contact, as I was thrilled by what I saw. With the dexterity with which they performed and played football on the pitch, I just picked interest and felt it should be a calling one might want to follow. But, of course, I can say that what happened subsequently was by sheer coincidence because I had already got my admission to the University of Nigeria, Nsukka (UNN) before I was called for the Navy interview. I got admitted from the then Bendel State. Out of over 300 students that came for the interview, only four were admitted as it were in 1977. I was second on the list of the four admitted. I left the university and went to NDA. Thirty-four years down the line, the rest is history. And for the years, we give God the glory.
Was it the music by the Navy Band that attracted you or the uniform which many believe has a certain magic?
Uniform? Yes! But it was beyond that. So I think it is more of a natural calling. You see, when you are at peace with God, your destiny is clearly defined and you just flow. That is what I think is my story.
At the time you made the choice, joining the military as it were was not exciting to most families. What was the reaction of your parents?
For some reasons, I was more or less interested and focused on what I wanted to do. My parents were not particularly, forthcoming outright, but of course they didn’t know that I had even left the university and had gone to NDA until after six months when I went home. That was when they saw me and asked me what was going on and I told them where I was. At that time, it was late to change the status quo.
Was that not rebellion of sorts?
Not at all! It was understanding what I wanted in life as a young man and taking the right decision for myself at age 19 or thereabout. So it was a conscious decision, knowing too well that it didn’t stop me from doing any other thing I wanted to do in life, particularly in my education. Rather, it provided a very good platform for me to achieve those goals and objectives. And I must say, in this case, there are no regrets because it was more like a scholarship.
How was life as a naval officer?
It was wonderful; no regrets whatsoever. From day one, it was exciting; it was full of adventure. It is a career that is properly structured. If you do what you are supposed to do within the purview of what the law prescribes and then you give it your best shot and your best is good enough to meet the benchmarks, you can’t go wrong.
You must have encountered some challenges on the job…
(Cuts in) I don’t believe in that word “challenge”. I only see what people regard as challenge as opportunity cost. I always turn what people regard to as challenges into opportunities and leverage on those opportunities and make the best of the situation and then move on. So, for me, the word challenge is rather an opportunity that somebody else has not seen. That is what I think it should be. And that is what it is for me.
How did you run the Nigerian Navy?
I must say two things. For some reasons, I was, to a large extent, very prepared for the job because, without sounding immodest, I had acquired, over the years, very robust leadership attributes in terms of knowledge, capacity to work, looking up to objectives and establishing milestones. So, for me, leadership is more or less an art. If you develop yourself as an individual first, the rest of the attributes will fall in line. But you must always have the commitment to put others first. In other words, you lead by sacrificing for others. Also, you lead by example. That is leadership by example. I always say to people that leadership is not a popularity contest. In other words, many people see leadership as an opportunity to be seen as: oh, he is a good man; he has done this or that. It is not a welfare scheme. Rather, leadership must be defined by some tenets. For me, those tenets encapsulate sincerity of purpose, strength of character and tenacity of action. If you have these attributes as guiding principles as a leader, you can’t go wrong. Most importantly, you must be at peace with your God and must beg God to give you the capacity to say no. This is because “no” is a very difficult thing in our society. Even when people know clearly that what they are asking of you is impossible and wrong, they expect you to say yes. So, for me, that was the cardinal point driving the Nigerian Navy, and I did those things my conscience told me were right within the purview of the law, making sure that everybody was offered level-playing ground, to a large extent, to exploit his God-given potential in adding value to the system.
I always tasked my officers and men to imbibe the principle of questioning the validity of a process because, as Nigerians in all facets, we have this mentality of saying “na so we de do am” (this is how we do it). So, it becomes more of a routine and nobody adds value to the system. You must have the capacity to question the validity of a process; think outside the box. In this 21st century, the dynamics is such that you must bring what I call private sector mentality to drive the public sector. That, in itself, means that you must have a very robust architecture in terms of management structure that gives you a complete understanding of where you are, where you were and where you want to go. So it is a process thing.
The comment you made about thinking outside the box sounded rather strange, coming from a military personnel. Do we see that as paradigm shift, given the impression that the military prepares one to just obey commands?
I think, for some reasons, people misunderstand the structure of the military. I understand it clearly. Of course, many people also think – which of course is true – that the military operates on hierarchy. Even then, even in the private sector, a lot of organisations thrive on hierarchy. But what I conceive as the way forward in the 21st century is that the dynamics of this century require that you do things differently, irrespective of whether you are in the military, public or in the private sector.
The concept of management and leadership at that level entails taking it from Total Quality Management (TQM) principles, or you decide to do what we call dynamics of leadership in the context of the leader and the led. But you must also understand that there is a continuum in the sense that you must define leadership in three parameters; the leader, the led and the environment. These three variables are intertwined. You cannot treat any of them in isolation of the other; they are mutually-inclusive. Therefore, if you talk of the 21st century, which is the era we find ourselves, you must play in the league of what the 21st century requires of you, to lead men. Leadership is not just about giving instructions; it is a complete articulation of management of human and material resources, imbibing the most articulate principles and objectives that will allow you achieve your goal. So it is a science, an art. It is no longer what we used to think in the old school. So, like you rightly observed, there is a paradigm shift that everybody must key into. Except you do that, you are not going anywhere.
Were there occasions you came close to quitting the Navy?
Not at all! For me, every challenge that I had was an opportunity cost and I leveraged on that opportunity to achieve the set goals and objectives. It was a wonderful experience. It is only a lazy man who, in the face of challenge, will want to quit. Quit to where?
Did you not have the fear of being killed in action?
Admirals don’t get afraid of anything because leadership is about courage, capacity, depth of knowledge, intuition, understanding that you have a moral responsibility and obligation, the right platform for people to understand what you stand for and what you need to achieve, given the responsibility that you have been asked to do.
On account of your meritorious service, Ndigbo Lagos recognised you last week. How did you feel about that?
I must say that, for me, it has been a very overwhelming experience. This is because since my retirement, I have had people cutting across the totality of the society doing things to appreciate my modest contribution, in my capacity as the Chief of Naval Staff and the service I rendered in serving this country. It didn’t just start with Ndigbo Lagos. It started from my immediate community, which is my town, Ibusa. They hosted me in Ibusa. Thereafter, the Ibusa resident in Lagos also hosted me. Then, Ibusa sons and daughters in the Diaspora hosted me in London. When I was appointed CNS, Delta State government also, in its wisdom, gave me a very grand reception. It has become, for me, overwhelming in terms of receptions because I did not expect all of these, and, in all, I didn’t contribute a dime. And very rarely do you have Nigerians hosting somebody who had left office. The reverse is always the case. So, it is a welcome development. I appreciate all of this. I am most thankful to Ndigbo Lagos. I didn’t know any of them, so it was not as if one had gone to beg for the honour. I only got a call from one or two people, consulted and felt it was a good honour given the category of some other honourees.
Your job in the Navy was obviously very demanding. How were you able to combine the service and the family?
Well, I must give a lot of gratitude to God for giving me a very wonderful and understanding wife. She has taken good care of the home for the over 25 years of our marriage. She has been a source of strength and support. There was no reason for anybody to doubt what my family stood for. They supported me. It has been wonderful.
Was it in service that you came across your wife?
Of course, yes. I met my wife 25 years ago; I was a Lieutenant already.
Was she also in the Navy?
No, not at all! I would never have married her if she was in the Navy (laughs).
Why?
You can’t have the two of us in the same profession. I know the challenges, complexities and requirement of naval service. So it would be wrong for two of us to be serving in the same profession. It would not have worked out well for the family. So she had to be home to take care of the kids.
What next after service?
I am still resting. When I am done with my rest, I will decide on what next to do. But, of course, I have a clear mandate or an understanding of where I want to go.
Politics, probably?
Not at all, not for now.
What exactly is your advice to Nigerians in the face of certain developments in the country?
Nigerians must know that we have a great country; we have a very robust and great potential as a people, as a country. All I would say is that Nigerians should be more patient. We should show more commitment and we must also resolve to be part and parcel of the day-to-day governance process by seeing governance as a collective responsibility and not meant for some elected few who inadvertently will require our support in all forms to be able to discharge their functions for which we elected them. So, for us, moving forward, we must take security as everybody’s business. It has to start from the family unit, to the group and to the other clusters of the larger society. One thing that we must imbibe is the spirit of good neighbourliness and that of brotherhood because a lot of times we don’t care about what happens to the next door neighbour; we get aloof. Things happen in and around us and we do not see the sign of danger that is imminent. We must learn to pick up the mantle and report this to security agencies promptly, so that they can do what is required.
