CHARLES QUAKER-DOKUBO, nuclear proliferation, conflict resolution and strategy analysis expert at the Nigeria Institute of International Affairs (NIIA), speaks with Assistant Politics Editor, DANIEL KANU, on the country’s security challenge, particularly the international dimension of Boko Haram among other issues
Some interpret the current security challenge in the country as build up to the alleged prediction that the country will disintegrate by 2015. Do you subscribe to that?
Charles-Quaker Dokubo
No, not at all! Nigeria is a country in which the worst has never happened and the best is yet to come. I doubt if it is one of the crisis that would threaten the edifice of the Nigerian state and cause the country to disintegrate. It is not. The truth is that we will eventually overcome what is happening. Yes we will get through it. Aside the Civil War, this is one crisis that has posed serious threat which Nigeria had never faced. But I think that with what the government is doing, by working in concert with international partners, we will be able to subdue it.
Looking at the international partners that are assisting in the fight against the Boko Haram menace, don’t you think it will affect the sovereignty of the country?
Sovereignty these days is no longer an absolute thing. The fact is that as you enter into agreement with other nations, you share their sovereignty. Nigeria as part of ECOWAS (Economic Community of West African States), you share a bit of the sovereignty; Nigeria as a member of the UN (United Nations), you share a bit of their sovereignty. Even in bilateral and multilateral situations, you share sovereignty. Sovereignty is no longer as static as it used to be.
So, I doubt if their coming will have any effect on Nigeria’s sovereignty. Nigeria will have to work in partnership with other countries to make sure that this crisis is contained, just like the United States (U.S.) in its global war against terror. They are not doing it all alone. It is a war most other countries are also involved in. Nigeria, for instance, is part of the Trans-Saharan anti-terrorist initiative sponsored by the U.S. So, it is not new that nations will have to work in concert to deal with issues. You see, this issue of terrorism is not any particular nation’s problem; it is trans-national, in the sense that you can see that these terror groups have links with Al-Qaeda in the Maghreb, the El-Shabbab etc. They have all sorts of linkages. So, no nation can deal with it on its strength alone. Also, because of globalisation and the fast media experience where things move easily from one end to another, breaking borders and barriers, you cannot totally track terrorism down on your own. So, Nigeria is not doing something that is at variance with any other country. What we are doing is what some other countries have also done; collaborating with other countries. So we have to be careful in saying that it affects our sovereignty. It does not. We have (US)AFRICOM (United States Africa Command). I doubt if any African country has complained that it negatively affects its sovereignty because there are some things that are mutually beneficial to countries that are into it. Nigeria has a right to act in concert with other like-minded countries that also see the threat that it is not only a Nigerian thing but an international issue.
Some critics say the administration of President Goodluck Jonathan is weak in its handling of the issue. Do you share in this view?
I will never accept that the government is weak. In fact, the government is treading a careful path in the sense that if you become too forceful in such a way that you use all the military might that you have, then they will say it is human rights abuse. If you keep quiet and the people are dying, they say you are not able to maintain peace and security in your country. So I think the government is trying all it can do to make sure it contains the situation in the best way possible. For instance, if in the kidnap of these Chibok girls, you send all the military helicopters to go and bomb the area, what eventually happens? You kill those you want to rescue. It is a delicate thing that the government is tackling. No government in power, no matter the political complexion, will on its own solve this problem. It is not a Jonathan’s problem; it is a Nigerian problem.
Most times, Nigeria claims to be the giant of Africa; but we do not seem to gain respect as a country in the global arena. Why?
Foreign policy is a reflection of domestic reality. Sometimes, most of these issues we have within the country affect our image world-wide. But let me bring it to your notice that Nigeria is the fastest growing economy in Africa. Now, it has overtaken South Africa, because of the new rebasing that has taken place. So, it is not that Nigeria is standing still; Nigeria is working hard. Nigeria has done well; but you see, there is no place you have a strong power like Nigeria that everybody will like. America, for whatever it is today, is not loved by everybody. Nigeria is suffering the same fate. The fact is that in the genesis of our foreign policy, we were just altruistic in the sense that we were not looking for gains and all that most people complain about. But it is not a good way to talk about Nigeria. You don’t make gains when you go into peace-keeping. You only gain when you are in peace-support operations where you have post-conflict peace-building, building infrastructure and institutions that have been destroyed by war. It is only then that countries make gains. America did not make gains during World War II because it sent troops there, but it was to revive West Germany and European nations that made America a strong power. That is some of the things people must get into their heads.
Nigeria helped South Africa in its liberation struggle but did not make any gain. Why?
I don’t know what you want. As an African country, that you liberated South Africa means you liberated yourself. If you look at the Nigerian constitution, it clearly states and is committed to the liberation of the black man where he is. So if Nigeria liberated South Africa, it does not mean they should lie down so that you walk on them; not at all. South Africa is a black nation. It is a brotherly affection. But it does not mean that even when you are now doing something wrong, they should keep quiet.
Nigeria, going by a current rebasing exercise, is adjudged the fastest growing economy in Africa; but that does not seem to have reflected on the standard of living of the people.
These things take time to trickle down. After all, when did we start talking of rebasing? It is just recently. Definitely, the economy is growing. It is not going as fast as most Nigerians want and we can also understand where this government started from; it was from a very low base. There are lots of unmet needs that the government will have to meet. So let us not judge this government this way, that Nigeria has not attained its full potential. It is also because for a very long time, we have been going through crisis. There was no focused leadership, no special attention made on economic growth as it should be. This government on its own has even done better. It is during this government that we are even talking about rebasing; it is during this government that we are talking about gas overtaking oil as major source of income. So we must understand all these ramifications and not just to sit back and say we have not done well.
How would you assess Nigeria in relation to other nations?
Nigeria has done well in the period of its existence, if you look at the country’s efforts at maintaining peace and security in the international community since Independence in peace-keeping operations all over the world. Nigeria spear-headed ECOMOG (Economic Community of West African States Monitoring Group) which has become a brigade for the African security architecture. We must understand that there is no country that would be great without a large population. It is of great advantage; so we have to be careful. The truth is that we have not been able to totally harness the various potentials, elements of power that we have. As soon as that is done, Nigeria will fly.
What are these elements of power?
It is the resources that we have. How have we facilitated these resources? How have we harnessed them to the benefit of the people in terms of social provisioning for the ordinary Nigerian, health service? How have we developed the sector in such a way that every Nigerian could get to a hospital and get the best treatment as he can? How have we provided shelter for the people? Geographically, we are well-placed and we have a good population. No country can just come and overwhelm us, subject and subjugate us in our country. U.S. is great not only because of its technological advancement, but also the size of the country. That is why in America they say they run for office and here in Nigeria we stand for office. You can see the differences in size and all that. There are also certain changes that have been made in our foreign policy objectives, in the sense that we have turned from giving monies to other countries and developed technical aid corps to be a means of addressing the needs of other less-fortunate and poorer countries in Africa and the Pacific. So, we cannot say Nigeria is not doing well. Sometimes people just want to jump-start this economy and want to just be like America overnight. It must take some time. None of those countries did that in a space of 20 years or thereabout. Look at the period of military rule that we had. Now that we have a civilian rule, things are changing. We are beginning to have good elections, I mean unlike in the past – when, if the people did not agree on the election, they may start burning houses; but now they go to the courts. It is a new development and we will get there with focused leadership. Also, bearing in mind where President Jonathan is coming from, 20 years ago, could you ever believe that somebody from Otuoke in Bayelsa State could be the president of this country? Things are changing. They may not be changing as fast as most people would want them to. Don’t forget that some people want things to be as they are; so that they will always be in control. And when they cannot get that, they will do whatever it takes to create problem.
Are you afraid of 2015 in terms of elections and picture of emerging scenario?
I am not scared at all on the elections of 2015. We may have little conflicts here and there, but it will not totally affect the outcome of the election. Some people that are making noise, whoever they are, had led this country before. But we don’t depend on their dictates and directives to choose our president. Nigerians will decide and vote with their feet to who they want to be their president. Slowly but surely, a transformational agenda has been carried out under Jonathan. I believe that this government is one of well-intentioned people. Our interest, no matter what we think, will be better protected under one Nigeria. Size matters in international politics; population matters; but the quality of the population matters than ordinary, poor, illiterate population.
How would you advise confab members?
Nigeria is a big and complex country. They should discuss all issues. Most people believe that the 1914 amalgamation did not take into context the feelings of the various factions that make up Nigeria. If they could talk on all that, it will be better for the country to be one in which factions agree that they want to stay in Nigeria. It is the most important thing. Also, the secularity of the Nigerian state is non-negotiable.
