Recently, President Buhari said that Nigeria must be kept one. But some people are saying that his actions are not in alliance with what he’s preaching. How would you react to this?
Most Nigerian leaders are insincere with Nigeria. Now, many leaders feel Nigeria must be one but all they do is dividing Nigeria. If Buhari wants Nigeria to be one, it’s up to him, like all other leaders. It is incumbent of him anyway to want Nigeria to remain one because Nigeria as one country voted for him to come and lead us. And since he came to lead us, he should be doing things that should unite us, not divide us.
The government as a whole has not been doing anything to keep us (Nigerians) as one. Nigerians want to be one but for God’s sake, when you use someone’s land to appease another person you are not promoting unity. For example, when somebody wins an election and is quickly dismissed from office by somebody who has no claim to victory in that area, that’s not promoting unity. When a judge is asking for a certificate that is not required for an office, that’s not promoting unity. It is up to the leaders to promote, tackle and practice unity. So far, we have not seen that in our leaders.
We reported recently an allegation that the president was practising nepotism in his appointments in Aso rock. Some people believe this in itself is corruption. With such baggage, do you think the president can really pursue a transparent anti-corruption agenda?
There are various forms of corruption. Corruption is not just stealing money. When you govern with impunity, intimidation, lawlessness, it is also corruption. Unfortunately, Nigerian people tend to think corruption is just when you defraud the nation. When you misgovern, practise injustice, govern with impunity, all these are forms of corruption and I will like to think and really hope that our teachers will teach their pupils in school the various forms of corruption. Money corruption is not just the only corruption. There is corruption all over the place and Nigerians should frown at all these forms of corruption including greed, ethnicity, all these are forms of corruption and to have the courage to correct Nigerians, you must have the courage to correct yourself.
The perception of most Nigerians is that the anti-corruption war is one-sided. Do you share that view?
Yes, that’s what I’m seeing. When any struggle is lopsided, it is not a genuine struggle. We were saying that for a government to be a good one, it should not just cow the opposition. Cowing the opposition is not good governance, the opposition must have its own say, that is good governance. The opposition sees what goes on. When a government tries to intimidate the opposition, they cannot govern with justice. Intimidation is injustice, impunity is injustice so let those who come to equity come with clean hands.
Are you worried about the activities of the Niger Delta Avengers?
I am more worried about what government is doing. When government takes up swords against its own citizens, you’re creating a situation for internal unrest. Nigeria does not need to take up arms against her citizens. Where is persuasion, where is the conference table, where are the elders of the people? Let us exhaust all these, before taking up weapons against the people. Otherwise, you turn Nigeria into a war zone.
Boko Haram started with arms against the people, we took up arms against them. (Niger Delta) Avengers criticised the government, they take up arms. It’s not the best approach when we have not exhausted the available approaches.
Just recently, the United States warned of possible terror attacks in Lagos state. Does this bother you as a resident of the State?
I am worried not just because I live in Lagos state, but because I am a Nigerian. The middle name for Nigeria now is insecurity and we do not plan to dissuade ourselves of this middle name. What we do is promote violence all the time, violence in Ikorodu, in Apapa, in Abia, Ekiti mention it. It’s as if Nigerians don’t have room for peace and a country does not grow in crisis. If you say you want to govern us with democracy, please do just that and let the people copy from you. No leader can govern well without being an icon. You must do what you preach not otherwise. So, we hope and pray that Nigerian leaders will not inculcate violence in us. So far, they have been inculcating violence. All of them, without exception. All they do is violence, violence, violence. Why must they teach us violence? We’re looking forward and looking up to our leaders, it is legitimate that we look up to Buhari, but what we get is violence. What do you expect from violence? Insecurity. That’s why the nation is insecure. Leaders are violent, they’re preaching violence with their attitude and actions. They have no other thing to do but there are better things they can do to make the country better and peaceful.
Some people have accused the government of using so much propaganda in running the nation….?
(Cuts in) We know they started with propaganda. They carry on with propaganda and propaganda is the only thing they have in view, that’s why when they came, the people were clapping for them. They were cheering them but as they came in, they didn’t keep what they promised. They didn’t show any form of honesty in governance, they didn’t promote justice even in the judiciary.
So obviously, propaganda is the order of the day and of course the people had since realised that they didn’t vote for people with propaganda but voted for government to give them good governance and leaders they can copy from but unfortunately, all they’re getting from government is propaganda and the evil effects of propaganda.
They said they would make agricultural products very cheap and we ended up with tomatoes going for N500 per plate instead of the usual N200. What is that? Where’s the truth in that? In an agrarian society? A bag of rice that was costing between N4,000-N6000 a year earlier is sold for N17,000 today and even more depending on where you are buying from, a bag of beans that was sold for N7,000 a year earlier selling for up to N20,000 and the minimum wage is N18,000.
Are you optimistic that in the next four years something good would come out of this situation?
No, Nigerians are peace loving people otherwise our leaders would not have succeeded in governing us. Judging by their level of ‘I don’t care attitude’, but we still look on because we’re good people. We hope and pray for the head of the government to realise that you don’t leave your name in history through intimidation, but live your name in history through exemplary governance and that’s why we are praying.
I personally am praying very hard for him not to listen too intently to those who surround him, who direct him, but listen to critics. Critics are the best friend of any government. He should occasionally listen to what the critics say, don’t disregard them. Critics are like soccer spectators, people who go to the pitch to watch soccer. When they go there, they see the mistakes of players on the field, including mistakes that even the referee may miss. Whenever you hear them hiss, some mistakes have been made. Spectators are the best friends of the referee and the players on the field so, critics are spectators and the best friends of government. It is government with bad agenda or intolerant to alternative views that feels threatened when criticised and tries to hurl critics.
Where can you say was the point of departure where Buhari missed it?
The point of departure: where people are arrested and kept in hell, in detention without immediate trial. What does our constitution recommend? 48 hours. If you arrest anybody, EFCC, ICTC, the police, nobody should joke with the constitution, you must jealously guard the freedom of the people. And when the Judiciary makes a pronouncement that is incompatible with our constitution, that’s a point of departure.
When you set a bail condition that cannot be met, you deny such person his or her freedom. This is a point of departure and those who are advising the President are not advising honestly on these lines. Those of us who criticise government are the best friends of this administration because I don’t want Buhari to fail. I want the next four years to be the best four years Nigerians ever had but his immediate advisers don’t wish him well that’s why they are turning him right when he should turn left, they’re not advising him well.
We pray sooner than later, he will realise that Nigerians love him. If they didn’t love him, they wouldn’t have given him their votes to come back. He says he’s not a general, he was a general and once a general, always a general. So, Buhari is still a general. Let him give up the attitude of generalship and hold on to the prestige of a general in governance.
What is your opinion on the restructuring of Nigeria?
If we do not restructure Nigeria, this country will not be at peace. Nigeria will not have peace until we have restructuring and the best thing Buhari can do to leave his imprints perpetually in history is to restructure Nigeria.
Do you think he should use the report of the National Conference?
He will be doing a lot of injury to himself if he does not consider the report of the National Conference. Almost 500 people put heads together and came out with this document, they thought might move Nigeria forward. And, nobody, no matter how brilliant, powerful, or rich can claim to be clever than 170 million people, represented by these 500 people. I think Nigerians together are wiser than Buhari. So he should pay obeisance to what they say.
I would advise Buhari to stop encouraging people to count faults for him. What happened in Abia, what is happening in the North east, in Niger Delta etc. can be better addressed using the mirror of justice instead of all this intimidation and impunity being displayed.
He should do more of governing than talking. We thought he (Buhari) was going to do it better which is why we voted for him and he still has time. Three years for a nation is a long time and he should make good use of the three years. There are only 36 governors in Nigeria so we shouldn’t project injustice in the system. Already two of the governors are already crying out that injustice is prevailing in their state.
If the Abia majority had cried out, if he allows the people to cry out against Governor Fayose and those issues raised are not well addressed he would be encouraging disorder. I hope and pray that he will allow the governors to govern their states; that is true federalism.
Do you think the South West has been well represented in his government?
Everybody wants to have the lion share of governance. How do you expect the South Westerners to cry out in his sharing of offices when you have one person holding on to three major ministries? There are many of us, so it’s like a mad dog that barks all the time and I believe in fairness and justice and fair play.
I do not think that the South West is well represented. They could get more. Every ethnic group in a Federal system is Oliver Twist, give me all and nobody says he has a fair share. When McMillan left office in Britain other two successors after him were also Scottish yet the Scottish were still crying for secession. So nobody in a federal system would fold his hand and say we have had enough. Although ours is glaring because that’s what we have always known in our political history.
What kind of man does Nigeria need to lead?
When Nigeria operates a Nigeria where leaders will hit their chest and say ’do what I do, not just what I say’, where a leader will come in and the accident on every road leaves him bleeding. The man we will ask ‘Where does he come from?’ because he’s a man with no ethnic mark. A man that won’t need to go with security escorts will attract the love of his citizens.
