Senator ADESEYE OGUNLEWE, former Minister of Works and currently pro-chancellor of the Federal University of Agriculture, Abeokuta (FUNAAB), in this interview with DANIEL KANU and AYO BADA, among other issues, takes a critical look at Nigeria’s perceived slow pace of development, blaming it on presidential system of government
Most critics have argued that the on-going national conference is a waste of time. Do you agree with such view?
ADESEYE OGUNLEWE
Let me congratulate whoever that conceived the idea of this national conference. My own thinking is that Nigeria is drifting gradually to the brink. As we are going, we cannot afford to go for election in 2015. Look at the comments of all the governors; imagine the comments of individuals; see the level and sophistication of violence; see the level of unemployment; see the level of poverty that we have; see the number of area boys; see the number of cult boys that we have all over Nigeria; they are close to 50 per cent of our population. Those are the people that will be unleashed on our populace during election. How do we survive as a nation? The comments of almost all Nigerian leaders are not giving the younger ones any hope about Nigeria. They don’t have a reference point again; they don’t have somebody that they look up to in Nigeria again. They now see all Nigerian leaders as corrupt and unreliable. So, what do we have as a nation without the confab? I am begging and appealing to all the delegates in the confab to look at Nigeria, look at what we must do now to save this country. We are at the edge of a very major disaster, if we are not careful. So, my belief is that for Nigeria to survive, we cannot continue the way we are now.
What are some of the areas you think members of the confab should take seriously?
The structure of our government is too expensive; it is foreign to us. Presidential system never survived outside America, and the nature of the growth of America is different from that of Nigeria. All of us know that all Americans are foreigners to that nation, but Nigerians are indigenous to Nigeria. First of all, dismantle the presidential system; it is corrupt, expensive, dictatorial and it has brought corruption in Nigeria. This is because in an election, you only elect one person; all the others in government are chosen by one person and they survive at his pleasure and discretion, and they cannot query the leader of government. So, it is a one-man business, so to speak. The legislature has limitations, the executive has all the money, all the powers to determine and nobody can ask them questions. It is as bad as that. We cannot continue with the presidential system. It will lead to disaster – where we spend 75 per cent of our income to run a government. Where is that one done? Almost all states now are in debt. They have to borrow money to survive; they don’t have time to develop the state because it is a one-man business. They don’t allow the local government areas to exist. We must have autonomy of local government because the level of poverty at the local government level is unbelievable all over Nigeria. That is why you have this Boko Haram. And Boko Haram, in whatever form, exists in every local government area in Nigeria where we have very poor people living and are ready to fight.
So you are worried about the security challenge in the country today via the Boko Haram onslaught?
We are the architects of the misfortune called Boko Haram. Let me give you an example. When I was a Minister, I paid a visit to Sokoto, and this idea that there are few people in the North is imaginary. At the outskirts, they were having a reception for then President (Olusegun) Obasanjo in Sokoto stadium. Outside that stadium, we had over one million youths. That is the status of under-development in the North. What we are seeing is a tip of the iceberg. There are so many untrained hands uncared for. They have no identity, no parents, no guardian; hence they are available to be used to fight the nation. So we are facing an alarming problem. We are just praying it will not catapult and destroy the country. What we are witnessing now is just the beginning and we must properly address this challenge.
There have been major defections out of the Peoples Democratic Party (PDP), including some governors. Are you not afraid that it may affect the chances of your party in next election?
No not at all. They were there to make sure that what they believe in happens. Their belief is that power should shift to the North. It is not that they are quarrelling with the PDP. They said they had an understanding with the president that he was going to serve for one term, and since some people are saying President Goodluck Jonathan should complete his two terms, they had to shift to the other party, so that probably they will gain strength. But they made a mistake by not carrying along the other members of their party. Of course, people like Attahiru Bafarawa, Ibrahim Shekarau, Buba Marwa, Mohammed Belgore now left their own party to join us. So, it is not one-sided. It would have been worse if none of these people defected to the PDP.
Do you think the opposition as represented by the All Progressives Congress (APC) can dethrone your party, PDP, in 2015?
They cannot dethrone the PDP, but they can make better impact. It, however, depends on them, if they are not driven by personal interest, because as I am seeing them, it is the oil money they are all chasing that is driving them. They are not going there because of poverty alleviation or for service; they are going there because they want to corner the wealth of the nation. That is the crux of the matter. Anybody that is itching to be the president of Nigeria should provide alternative ideas. They should go and tell the confab members to make sure that we have resource control, so that any resource that is domesticated in a state should be utilised by the state, while the state now makes contribution to the centre. If this is done, you will see that the opposition will fizzle away. The money that is accruing from oil is the impetus for them that they want to be president. Unfortunately for them, the president now comes from the South South, the area that produces the oil. So if you can do Boko Haram to kill people, they can also have ‘South South Haram’ to blow the oil wells. Where do we go from there? We need to be careful and ensure that we create genuine political structure that will suit our system.
The PDP has vowed to take over the South West, but it appears it is wishful thinking. Do you think otherwise?
It is the easiest thing to do, but all depends on Mr. President. The president is the leader of the party, chief campaigner of the party, father of the party. So, if the father wants his children to win election, he knows what to do. It is up to him.
What exactly do you mean? Are you saying the president should rig for the party because this is what some people may think you mean?
The president should assist the party to win.
How?
Why shouldn’t he? Is he not the father of the party? Is he not the leader of the party? If you want to conduct local government election in a state, what will the governor do? So the governor will say he is not the leader of the party, let them defeat him at the local government level? Why are the governors not conducting elections at the local government levels? So the president also must be bold enough to behave as the leader of the PDP, irrespective of whose ox is gored. It is the same figure that they will use to defeat him. So what are we talking about?
Lagos electorate are still worried that the PDP has not made the necessary impact as to how it can wrest power from the APC. How would you look at this?
It is not correct. It is manipulation, and the manipulators are the ones making sure that PDP doesn’t win in Lagos. From 2003 to 2011, the manipulator was there. If we stop the manipulators – and believe it or not, the manipulators are members of the PDP – the party will win. But if they don’t, they will sell the party to the opposition and collect money. All these tricks are responsible, but if there is unity in the party and we are focused, the cosmopolitan nature of Lagos state will give us an advantage. Lagosians are dissatisfied with the party in power.
You were at a time accused by Bode George, leader of your party, that you were the mole that was planted in the party. How would you react to that allegation?
Well, that issue is now in the past, and I will not want us to resurrect it. Bode George is now my brother, and party leader. The days of fighting are over and we have now resolved to keep our differences and forge the party ahead. There is unity in Lagos PDP now, and we are sure of victory.
Looking at Nigeria and its problem; when could you say we started to get it wrong?
It is bad leadership. Bad leadership breeds corruption, insensitivity and bad policy, and bad policy breeds bad people. So it is leadership problem, compounded by the military regime that truncated our democratic growth. They handed over a foreign and destructive constitution for democracy in Nigeria.
As the pro-chancellor of a federal university, what is your candid assessment of the education sector so far?
In terms of content and performance, there is no doubt that our universities are medium-sized, may be 60/70 per cent; but there is a lot more to be done in the area of technology. The world is now a global village. What we have now is not adequate. A lot of investment should be put into visual learning, so that you can sit down in the classroom and listen to a lecturer anywhere in the world. We must encourage distant learning. That is what is obtainable now. You don’t have to be a full-time member of a university to have a degree. If I have my way, I will cancel JAMB (Joint Admission and Matriculation Board) tests and re-introduce higher school certificate. It was what we were used to in the past.
Do you have fears for 2015?
Yes, I am very much afraid. Look at the recent letter by Governor Murtala Nyako. It is very disturbing. If you had read the letter properly, you would know that we are in a watershed, we are at the edge. We should not take Nyako’s letter lightly. We must analyse every single sentence there and see the way some people are thinking for Nigeria. They don’t seem to wish Nigeria well. We must ask confab members to read that letter and invite Nyako. What does he want? How does he want Nigeria to be by writing this sort of letter?
