- Says on the issue of inclusive governance, APC has taken Nigeria backwards
On Tuesday, June 25, we ran the first part of our exclusive interview with Chief Olabode Ibiyinka George, former National Deputy Chairman of the Peoples Democratic Party (PDP).
Today, we are publishing the second part of the captivating interview. The retired Naval Commodore and former military governor of Ondo State, spoke to Ikechukwu Amaechi in his Lagos office.
Why is there this conspiracy of silence over what actually happened on June 12, 1993? All of you were in the military then, what happened?
We were in the military then but the fact that one was in the military does not mean the person was physically present where such decisions were made.
No!
A military organisation is top-bottom. Directives will come from the top to the bottom. If you are lucky, you can be part of the apex that will take the decision. But once the decisions are taken, you key in. If you don’t, it is to your peril.
But a civilian administration is different. It is bottom-top. You see why we have been talking about changing this structure of governance in Nigeria?
How?
When you hear about restructuring, we are saying, change it from the military concept back to the real civilian concept – real democratic concept.
Governance as we see it today emanates from the top downwards and that is why it is not working.
So, what does restructuring mean to you in real terms?
Restructuring means let the people’s will prevail. The people elected, not selected, their leaders to represent them in government, to manage the resources not for their own good but the generality of the people.
What we have now is that the resources of the country are aggregated in one big basket by the ministry of finance and redistributed. That is not democratic governance. It is military.
We can’t go back to regions now because there will be a hell of a lot of fight. But what is the concern of Abuja with my local government? What is the concern of Abuja with a local government in Sokoto or in Cross River State?
You see, we copied the American system, take a state like California, it is the sixth largest economy in the world. The governor runs the show. The state has two chambers of parliament because they can afford it and they have counties.
And you have a state like Maine, the smallest state in the U.S. right on the north east coast – a small state but they still manage themselves. They don’t wait for largesse from Washington.
There was a time the U.S. President said he would deal with the Chinese over trade, and the California governor said he would go to China and negotiate the things they would do together so that there can be better economic growth in the state.
There is no part of Nigeria that God has not endowed with one resource or the order. But today we are a monolithic economy with just one income stream from crude oil. In 2040, there will be no more production of petrol engines. What are you going to do with your crude oil, drink it? Do you know that they even have large deposit of gold in Zamfara?
Allow the states to develop whatever resources that they have. If you cannot develop and you cannot sustain yourself, link up with another state.
Restructuring must be very urgent. Let the federal government concern itself with the military, protection of lives, properties of the citizenry and the sovereign integrity of this entity called Nigeria, international relations, trade, etc., but the management of the various federating units should be the responsibility of the states.
The needs of the local communities is not in Abuja. The other day, I read where the IG said the Nigeria Police Force has only 334,000 policemen to cover this vast country. Is that feasible? What is wrong with local police? Policing is local.
The president agreed that there is the need for local police and people are opposed to it. Ok, depend on Abuja for the security of your state. Who is the chief security officer of the state? People are complaining that they don’t have enough policemen. How can they have?
If any state cannot sustain itself economically, then it should merge with others. And I am not saying this to deride anybody because there is no state in this country that God has not blessed with one resource or the other. Let them tap into those resources.
Of course, every state must in turn pay certain things to the centre for sustenance. But not to take everything there and at the end of the month, you share.
Take Lagos State for instance, the highest VAT income is derived here, between 80 to 90 per cent. When everything is sent to Abuja, do you know what returns? Eleven per cent. Is that fair?
There should also be regional cooperation in terms of economy, agriculture, rail system to transport things. You tap into your various advantages. We lived through this in the First Republic although they were called regional governments.
But the First Republic collapsed under the weight of its own contradictions?
The major problem we had at that time was that the minorities were to be seen and not heard. The minorities existed in all the regions but they couldn’t become premiers because the majority groups wouldn’t let them. That was the flaw of that system. There was no inclusiveness in terms of power sharing. When General Yakubu Gowon came, he created 12 states to remove that friction.
When we came back to civilian government after General Abdulsalami Abubakar, remember that the founding fathers of our party, the PDP, most of who were very active participants in the politics of the First Republic, tried to correct that flaw by adopting zoning of political offices. That is why the party will remain in existence for a long time, we are not in power now, and we are learning the experiences of losing power.
The founding fathers of our party said though zoning is not in the Nigerian constitution but the only way the country could survive was to have a zonal concept, so six geo-political zones were created. It is not in our national constitution but it is in the PDP constitution.
After that they came together and said look, there are six geopolitical zones, and there are six top positions – President, Vice President, Senate President, Speaker House of Representatives, Secretary to Government of the Federation and Chairman of the party. If the President comes from the north, Vice President from the south, Senate President from the north, Speaker from the south, Secretary to Government from the north, Chairman from the south.
After eight years, we rotate. That singular act sustained democracy in the 16 years PDP was in power. And therefore, because you wait for your time, someday you will be asked to produce the president.
Nigeria is not a natural country. It was artificially created by the British and it was for economic reasons. It was not for political reasons and it is not novel because this is what is done in Switzerland. So, that model exists somewhere else. You know in Switzerland, they have the French-speaking, Italian and the Germans. And they rotate the headship just like what we were doing for purposes of oneness.
But the ruling All Progressives Congress (APC) seem not to believe in that concept
Yes, we tried that and it worked. But when the APC came, they said they didn’t want that. It was noise all over the place. So, they have taken us back to the 1960 regime – the period where the minorities are to be seen but not heard. So, the cacophony of discontent is rising now. Why have we refused to learn from history? Why are we going back? The President, Senate President, Speaker are all from the majority tribes. The Speaker is from the Southwest and the Vice President is also from the Southwest. What about the minorities of the country?
But it even goes beyond the minorities this time, you seem to forget that the Igbo, one of the three major ethnic groups, is excluded from all the six topmost positions in the country right now.
That is a sore point. Like I said, the distribution positions is much skewed. These fellows said they don’t believe in zoning and I ask, are they coming from the outer space? You think we did the zoning just for the sake of zoning? It was for a particular purpose – the purpose of oneness, nationalism, inclusiveness to say yes, we all belong here. You are not outside the box, we are all part and parcel, so everybody is important, and everybody can vie to be the president of this country someday.
It does not matter whether you are the majority or minority because right now the gorge between the tribes rather than closing up is getting wider. Don’t those excluded have the right to say wait a minute, how did you distribute it? Is it because we are not part of your party? There are people from the Southeast who are members of the APC. So why are they not part of the top six positions in the country? Some people now have two top positions while others have none. Does that augur well for unity, camaraderie, and oneness? No! You don’t need to be a rocket scientist to know that this thing is wrong.
I am not saying it because I am a member of the PDP. It is simply wrong. Let us pull our resources together. A divided house is a defeated house.
Again, the three arms of government – executive, judiciary and the legislature – are all headed by northerners who are Muslims
That is another dimension I have not even looked at although that doesn’t work very well in Lagos because my immediate elder sister is married to a Muslim. I gave them money to go for Hajj and she is still my sister. She is Alhaja. She has gone to Koranic school. So, we go to church today and you see her singing all the hymns. Am I going to reject her because she is now a Muslim, that she is no longer my sister? And I have a younger brother who is married to a Muslim. Today, his wife is also a pastor. So, here it doesn’t matter. When it is time for Muslim activities, we are all down there enjoying ourselves. And vice versa. So why should religion be an issue?
But people are watching. What is good for the goose is also good for the gander. Will there be a time in this country when the President, Chief Justice and chairman of the National Assembly (Senate President) will all be Christians from the South? Will it be acceptable? What you cannot accept, don’t throw it at the face of another.
My best friend is a Fulani. He is my best friend because we met in the service, and he has exhibited what is humanly sensible in all our relationship. So, he is my brother. And I know that he will say the same thing that I am saying about me.
What is your worst fear for Nigeria?
I have been hearing cacophonous voices. It is nice to talk. To jaw-jaw is far better than to war-war. Let us talk. Let us discuss. Even if you start a war, you will end up at the table discussing. We should have a national meeting. People have been throwing tantrums all over the place. Let the President of this country call a town hall meeting. Let Nigerians come and talk so that he can take the feedback home, dissect what has been said. I cannot teach him because he is my Oga. But this is my own observation and suggestion because that is all you can do in the military. Once somebody is senior to you, you can only suggest to him. At least I have satisfied my conscience. If they take my suggestion seriously, well and good. If they don’t, we pray for our nation.
Right now, at this age, what am I looking for? I feel concerned because this nation trained me and I am eager to throw something back. Like I told you about Herbert Macaulay, my great grand pa, he was trying to unite the north and south and going all over the place. His political son at that time was Dr. Nnamdi Azikiwe. Awolowo was in the UK then.
Macaulay didn’t look at Zik as an Igbo man. He came back in 1946 from Kano fighting the colonialists. He was in and out of prison because the British thought they could break him but he was unbroken. He came and had pneumonia in the same struggle and died.
He didn’t talk about the division of this nation. If you look at his background, he was born into wealth. His house at that time was the Kirsten Hall, that is where the General Post Office is today on Marina.
He was a first class musician, an engineer, architect, he was everything. He fought against the British rule.
Like I told you, our electoral process is a joke. Where are we headed? Something that is not electronically done is a joke. What is bad is bad.
I wish our nation well. But let us tell ourselves serious home truth. Let us engage ourselves. The gorge between the tribes is getting bigger rather than closing. The distrust is becoming the norm.
Would you say President Buhari is moving in the right direction?
When I said Oga (Buhari) should call a meeting, he said he has confidence that all is well but I am saying if he listens to me, we all came from the same profession, why would I want to lie to him? Why would I lie to my commander? What will be my gain? What do I want to become? What am I looking for, another wife or another house to live in or another car or to give me money? What am I looking for? If you cannot say the truth that will liberate the people, then you will be consumed by the lies.
I owe it a duty with my training and exposure to tell him the truth. It is for him to agree or not to agree. I am not a member of their party, but I am talking totally out of any political affiliation.
In my party the PDP, we have a different ball game now. We are experiencing what it takes to be in the opposition. I heard the Rivers State governor, Nyesom Wike, howling the other day that he cannot trust some people. Is he just waking up? That human beings you cannot truth them. That was the headline and I read it. That it is only God that he trusts. Ah! He is just waking up? He said the party gave the members in the National Assembly instructions and they flouted it. That is not the way to go. What he should do is find out why and to make sure that it does not happen again. Those are your representatives. You gave them directives, they went in another direction, and you ask them why they went there. Because, they will get dug up in their trenches now and say what a hell. Who the hell is this fellow? Why are you talking to us like this?
I wish Nigeria well.
The first government Obasanjo formed was a national government. Go back and check. Bola Ige was on board, so were members of the ANPP. So, let us build a united country.
But isn’t the lack of democratic character in our governance super-structure an act of mischief by the military when they imposed Obasanjo on us as president in 1999. Don’t you think the country’s democracy could have followed another trajectory if a thorough-bred civilian rather than a retired general took over in 1999?
We needed somebody who could hold that balance in 1999. Who could have taken the decision that all those who had been military governors should be retired? I was a member of that committee of General Danjuma and the recommendation was that all those who had been ADC to military governors should go.
But Baba (Obasanjo) said let us stop it at the governors. Who could have taken that decision? Like I said, I liken him to Nehemiah, who came purposely to repair the broken walls of Jerusalem.
Remember that they wanted to remove him after four years. I am not saying Obasanjo is a saint. Remember when the time was coming for him to finally go after his second term in office, people were saying, Baba, if you leave now, this country will go bananas, don’t leave sir. I was there, I was listening.
Unfortunately, he bought into the dummy to extend his tenure to have a third term. I said, what is all this? We became enemies. But it is better now. Even President Bush Jnr said no, no matter how good you are, eight years is good enough.
But the truth is that without someone like Obasanjo taking over the reins of power in 1999, this Fourth Republic could have had problems.