Renowned Constitutional Lawyer, Professor Ben Nwabueze (SAN), concludes his insightful discussion with Managing Director, IKECHUKWU AMAECHI, and Assistant Politics Editor, DANIEL KANU, addressing such issues as Boko Haram rehabilitation agenda, efforts at eradicating corruption and why revolution may not be an easy course in going against the rot in the system.
There is this school of thought that believes that President Mohammadu Buhari will do a better fight against Islamist fundamentalists than Jonathan did. You don’t seem to agree with that?
I agree but in a different way. In the case of insurgency, he will probably be able to quieten the upsurge because the insurgents now know that they have a fellow Islamist in-charge and probably hope that he will give them support for the ultimate plan of islamising the government of Nigeria. It is not the plan of islamising you and I because there is no way anybody can turn me into a Muslim. It’s absolutely impossible but the government of Nigeria can quite easily be islamised. We have seen what is happening already – key appointments already made and all almost going to Muslims. Quietening the Boko Haram terrorists is one thing, containing islamisation is another thing. Islamisation is something shared by nearly all Muslims in the North from the late Sardauna (Ahmadu Bello). Remember what Sardauna said on his mission to islamise Nigeria, at least the North. He was loved by Northerners because he went all out to islamise the North. That’s what gave real strength to the religious divide. So, I believe he will do a better job than Jonathan but containing Islamism is another thing. Of course, Jihad doesn’t necessarily mean terrorism because there are different ways of carrying out the jihad, the islamisation agenda. They can islamise the government of Nigeria.
Do you think that could be an agenda for the government?
I find it difficult to rule it out. I find it difficult because the man Buhari, is a fundamentalist by his statements, by his actions etc. So, I can’t see him betraying the hopes and aspirations of those who put him there; those who during the primary, gave him almost 4000 votes as against Atiku that is not a fundamentalist. Buhari is not going to let them down in that agenda to islamise Nigerian government. No, he can’t let them down because he is still a human being. Those people are looking up to him to implement the agenda and he is not likely to fail them. The islamisation agenda is real. It is just that the Boko Haram sect is going about it the wrong way in killing people. The way they are going about it they have forfeited the sympathy and support of many Muslims in the North but the islamisation agenda is there. No Northern Muslim can deny the agenda of islamising if not Nigeria as a state but at least the federal government. But as I said earlier, let’s watch and see.
Do you think it is possible to islamise the government?
Oh yes it’s quite easy. You start with appointments. Make sure you are in control of the vital agencies of government, especially in the security, the Chief of Army Staff. Let’s see what is going to happen to the Inspector General of Police (IGP) appointed by Jonathan before he left.
Won’t that be a futile exercise given that Buhari is not going to be there for life?
Don’t forget he has eight years. Eight years is a long time. A lot of things can happen in eight years.
What if after eight years a Christian takes over and upturns all that he has done?
That is doubtful or rather problematic. You think it’s going to be easy as you think? You will see what will happen as time passes by. The North has said once they get the power back they are not going to let it leave their hands. So after eight years, you will see what will happen. You said what if a Christian takes over power after eight years and undo what had been done for eight years? Do you think that is an easy thing to do? The riot, the upheaval that will follow in trying to undo what will be on ground, will be unimaginable. Let’s just wait and see as things unfold.
Is it that the South Westerners don’t understand this agenda? What informed the way they voted?
Let me start by asking whether even our own people (Ndigbo) appreciated this? They didn’t appreciate this. If they had appreciated this, Jonathan would have won. Did you look at the figures of the voting in 2011? If the South East had voted in 2015 the way they voted in 2011, Jonathan would have won with clear majority. It was just two million that was the difference in this 2015 election and it was because Ndigbo did not appreciate the problem. Much as I wanted a change from PDP, much as I wanted a change from Jonathan, the Igbo kept away and did not vote as they should. On the case of the South West and why they voted the way they did, like you and I they also wanted a change. Many of them are also Muslims although an average Yoruba Muslim is not like the Northern Muslim. A Yoruba Muslim is not concerned about islamisation, about Sharia. They have little concern about that. And you know they have their own man who is leader of the APC and their son as vice president. So why should they be concerned so much?
What do you think informed the recent relocation of the insurgents to Anambra State?
Well I don’t know. It’s difficult to read mind after the event. Jonathan was said to have approved it. Did he address his mind to the implication? I don’t think he did. As for those who implemented it after Jonathan had left, what is their intention, what is their motive for doing it? Is it that Ekwulobia is the only prison throughout Nigeria? Are all the prisons in the North congested? We mustn’t speculate. We are concerned with the facts, with the actual event that happened in the transfer of Boko Haram to Ekwulobia prison in Anambra which is not a maximum security prison.
There are those that also argue that prisons belong to the exclusive list, a federal government concern and that the Igbo people are simply crying wolf because the federal government can decide to take prisoners to any prison in the country because it is a federal concern.
That is irrelevant because the fact that you have power doesn’t make your action justified in the political and social sense. You are now talking about the political, moral and social implications of the way you exercise your power. We are not arguing about who has the power because we know prisons belong to the federal government. That is not the issue. Are you going to suggest that everything that belongs to the federal government under the exclusive or legislative list can be operated only to benefit or to prejudice one part of the country? No, we are talking about the moral justification, the justice, and the equity of the action. These are the things that determine the exercise of power, not just the fact that you have the power, legally. How you exercise the power is the thing that is being talked about here. How do you exercise the power that clearly and unquestionably belongs to you? That is the issue. Now we know about the destructions, devastations perpetrated by the Boko Haram insurgents in the North, the detailed account of what they have done even to their own people who are Christians. Christians in the North East are the main targets, the main sufferers. Millions have been forced to take refuge in Cameroon, Chad, and Niger etc.
The Federal Government has declared its intention to grant Boko Haram amnesty with billions of naira likely to be voted for the rehabilitation of “repentant” operatives. How do you see this?
On the issue of rehabilitation there have been double standards. Boko Haram insurgents are rebelling for no just reasons unlike in the Biafran case of rebellion that was justifiable. Boko Haram is rebelling just for religious reason because they want to replace the constitution of Nigeria with an Islamic one; to replace the Nigerian Constitution with one based on Islamic Law – Sharia. That is all.
And yet we are talking already about $2.1 billion for rehabilitation efforts. That is only the one that is coming from the outside. What the Federal Government itself is going to put in we don’t know. Remember the golden rule: ‘do unto others what you will want them do unto you’. Nobody did anything or spent any money for the rehabilitation of the South East which was ravaged, devastated by the Civil War. The Igbos did what they did entirely by their own devices. I am not condemning the rehabilitation in the North East, but I am only pointing to the double standards that are being used. The long and short story on what is happening now is that we must give Buhari the chance and watch.
Are you hopeful?
I won’t answer that. I am prepared to give him a chance but I have said enough to show you that it is going to be difficult for him to disappoint his backers, those who put him there for the given reasons, for the implementation of the Muslim agenda and it’s an agenda shared by most die-hard Muslims from Sardauna till today, to islamise Nigeria.
But most people are of the opinion that what gave Buhari the Presidency was because of his integrity over the years?
It may be. There was an article published by one Igbo man where he articulated and listed the 20 attributes of Buhari. But that is a different thing. He may have all these qualities but we are concerned with the Muslim agenda.
Do you think we can ever get it right in this country?
You are driving me again to this question of a revolution. Now things are so bad, so rotten that I don’t see how we can get it right without a revolution. Because of the extent of the rot, we can’t get things right without a revolution. But do we want a revolution and how can we have a revolution in the circumstances of Nigeria? How can you get a united front that you need for a revolution to be supported by the entire country? Look at the mere question of national conference, the new constitution. You can’t have a new constitution because the North has put its foot firmly down. They don’t want it, they don’t want restructuring. So how can you have your new beginning in this country? It’s a question about aspiration. Let us continue hoping, aspiring that maybe one day, it may happen. I am a dreamer but certain things are beyond dreams. Reality starring you in the face tells you that you don’t dream extravagant dreams because it takes you nowhere, you can’t realise it. It is sad everyday things are getting worse.
Is that not too gloomy a forecast?
But that is the reality. When you understand the depth of the religious divide, you will then appreciate what I am saying. This country is in trouble and we must be careful of our actions.
Which to you is Nigeria’s worst problem, religious divide, corruption?
Corruption is a side issue; sometime stemming from religion but it’s the religious divide that stokes corruption. It’s impunity. They all intermingle but the religious divide is the over-arching thing under which everything rotates. That is a problem that we can never be right so long as Arabism and Islamism are spreading across the globe. It’s global and sometimes you begin to wonder whether these Islamic Jihadists are human beings. I find some of their actions very difficult to comprehend. Look at the leader of Boko Haram saying that they have sold the Chibok girls into slavery and that Allah orders it. Can you imagine that? Is it the same God that we all worship? Allah ordering you to sell girls into slavery? That’s total madness.