Buba Galadima, former National Secretary of defunct Congress for Progressive Change (CPC), is known for taking principled position on national issues, no matter how controversial. The engineer, who appears to have been unusually quiet for some time now, is fully back on the turf, with his nomination as Yobe State Government’s delegate to the National Conference. He speaks to Assistant Editor, North, CHUKS EHIRIM,on a number of issues of national importance, especially the insecurity in the North East geo-political zone…
Buba Galadima
FORMER CHIEF JUSTICE, Idris Kutigi, is chairman of the national conference. As somebody whose role in litigations on election matters when he was the CJN was dogged by controversy, do you think he has the integrity to manage the confab?
Obviously, a lot of people are of the opinion that the appointment has credibility issues. In fact, there were a lot of insinuations that he was deliberately chosen by government, specifically by Jonathan, because he can easily be intimidated and be asked to do the bidding of those in authority.
I am sure that when people say that, they refer to allegations that even when there was no election, he sat to head the tribunal on the election of Mr. President in 2007 and cast the vote that legitimised what many Nigerians saw as a fairy tale.
Therefore, I don’t know how he will go about this opinion; whether he has developed some thick skin or he has developed some courage to enable him do what is right for the country. But for sure, some of those who are going to be there cannot be deterred from a path that we have chosen for ourselves, as patriotic Nigerians.
Are you saying that you don’t have confidence that Kutigi, as the chairman of the Conference, will allow the opinion of Nigerians to flourish?
Well, I don’t want to beat my chest for any Nigerian. I have always said that I can only judge any Nigerian by his past, not by what he is going to do. But my prayer is;may God give us the courage and the wisdom to accept that which we cannot change. Obviously, whether I like Kutigi or I don’t like his face, he has been appointed, and those who appointed him did so for some reasons and they are not likely going to shift ground from what they have chosen to do.
Nigerians should pray very hard that Kutigi should change from what we used to know him to be, so that he administers this National Dialogue or National Conference with the fear of God, and that the sympathy of the people of Nigeria should always guide his thinking.
When you said he should change from what he used to be, I know that prior to the judgment that was delivered by the Supreme Court on the 2007 Presidential election, a lot of people held him in high esteem; some people said he was one man who wasn’t corrupt. Are you saying that he should change from what he was before 2007 or what he was during that election tribunal case?
I think Kutigi is always remembered for the decision he had taken against the will of the majority of Nigerians. Whatever they thought of him before that judgment has completely been erased. Where they see him is from the perspective of the judgment he gave.
Still on the conference, there has been this allegation that government has majority of the nominees. How do you see the composition of the membership of the conference? Second, there have been insinuations from the first day the President mooted the idea of convening the Conference that it is going to be tailored to suit his political interest. Do you share that view?
Obviously, the whole idea about the conference was premeditated on the fact that Jonathan would want to run for a third term. Like Obasanjo, he is looking for all manner of ways to legitimise that ambition because, ordinarily, according to the laws of Nigeria, Jonathan has no locus to run as President in 2015.
How will he use the Conference to achieve that purpose?
To start with, he has majority delegates. They have nearly 20 governors. PDP has nearly 60 delegates from its states.Then Jonathan has appropriated to himself one delegate from each state of the federation plus the Federal Capital Territory (FCT), amounting to 37 delegates. So, Jonathan or the Federal Government has 97 delegates in his kitty.
Then, don’t forget that most of the institutions that were asked to present delegates may be for him. For instance, the National Association of Nigerian Students (NANS); you know that students union leaders these days emerge by appointment, (sometimes) by the Federal Government, not by genuine election by the students. Let us also take the Youth Council of Nigeria. That one also is a kangaroo arrangement by the government, through recognising one person who did not win any election.
For most institutions, the Nigerian Bar Association (NBA), Nigerian Medical Association (NMA), Nigerian Women Association, etc; elections of their leaders are influenced by the Federal Government. So, I will be free to say that they are all PDP or Federal Government delegates. There is no doubt whatsoever that the PDP, the Federal Government or Jonathan has majority delegates at the Conference.
But that is not the issue. The issue is the power of reasoning, the power of argument and the power of dialogue at the Conference. I can assure you that we will not disappoint any Nigerian, by deploying our intellect to say what is right, to say what is good for the people of Nigeria and to say what is good for Nigeria. That one, we are going to say. Even if, eventually, Jonathan gets his way, we wouldn’t have been denied opportunity to have our say.
Another area that seems to be contentious with regards to this Conference is Jonathan’s insistence that the unity of Nigeria is non-negotiable. Now a lot of people came to this Conference with the mindset of defending the interest of the zone they represent. For instance, you are from the North East. If the preponderance of opinion in the North East is that the country should break up, will you welcome the idea that such thing should not be discussed at the Conference?
Let me say, first, that the preponderance of opinion of the people of North East is how they can find a solution to the insecurity problem bedeviling them; where people are killed in thousands everyday and the Federal Government does not give a damn that human life is being wasted. In fact, I don’t even believe that the Federal Government still recognises North East as part of the country any longer. So, first, we are coming with open mind to discuss the problems of Nigeria because what is happening in the North East, when you disabuse your mind, is a Nigerian problem; it is not a North East problem. We will expect that with the power of reasoning, we are going to deliver. We will expect every Nigerian to consider it his problem because if your neighbour does not eat, be assured that whatever you eat, you will not have a sound sleep in your house.
This is what is happening in Nigeria and we will wish for ourselves what we will wish our neighbours. But let me come to the issue of division or dissolution of Nigeria. We hear people talk about that. We do not support that, but if that is the preponderance of opinion or wish of the majority of Nigerians, we will agree to divide Nigeria on the dining table, rather than in the battle field because, I have elected to come to the conference, not because it is desirable, but because whatever motive anybody has, I should have the opportunity to be part of the historic event to discuss Nigeria.
What makes you thinkthe Federal Government does not regard the North East?
Just imagine that what is currently happening in the North East is happening in the South West or South South; if it were a sitting Northern President, you people in the press would have hanged him even before his death. Look, nobody cares. Go and put your ears on the ground and hear what the common people are saying about the kind of responses that the security forces in that area give to the people.
Can’t you recall that Jonathan said something like a joke during the last media chat, that the governor of Borno State, Kashim Shettima, was talking rubbish; that if he decides to pull out the military for one month, whether Shettima will still be living in the Government House in Maiduguri. And true to what he suggested, the following day, it was alleged that soldiers were pulled out from Bunin Yadi, five hours before the attack of Boko Haram.
Could it be that Jonathan was testing the waters to actualise his idea of pulling out the soldiers and seeing how the governors in Yobe, Borno and Adamawa states would fare? People just talk, without considering the implications of what they are saying.
But the Borno governor merely alleged that the terrorists were better organised…
It was not an allegation; it is a statement of fact that the militants are more motivated than the Nigerian security forces; that the militants are better armed than the security forces. You see the type of guns they carry. Why can’t the Federal Government investigate that statement, instead of allowing their attack dogs to call the governor names?
What is wrong in investigating? He is the man on the ground. What you should do is not dismiss it, but to try to confirm whether what he said is right or wrong before you start attacking him.
But do you think the soldiers deployed to fight the Boko Haram insurgents are not taken good care of by the Federal Government?
I am not on the ground, but I want you to go back to the paper I presented at the National Institute for Policy and Strategic Studies (NIPSS) in September 2012. All the things I said in that paper, as if I was quoting from the Qur’an or the Bible, are happening to us today. I don’t think the government is interested in bringing solution to the problem in that zone. If they want, solution is very possible.
Nigeria claims it has a satellite orbit: visual satellite, pictorial satellite. Why can’t they beam the satellite in that area to locate the camps of the militants, so that they attack them? If the government is interested in quelling the insurgency, they have an Air Force stationed in Yola. That takes only 10 minutes to arrive Maiduguri. Why should the insurgents come and operate for 10, 13 and 15 hours, without the Air Force coming? These insurgents, we are told, come in convoy of 10, 20, 30 vehicles in the night. In the entire Borno and Adamawa states, with existing curfew at 9pm, if they have jets in Yola, in a convoy that has more than 10 vehicles, why can’t they trail those vehicles and bomb them?
Your party, some time ago, warned the Federal Government not to profit from the activities of the insurgents in the North East. From what you are saying, it appears that you agree with that statement. Why do you think the government would want to profit from what is going on there?
I hope you know that one trillion naira, which is one-quarter of the federal budget, is voted for security. And the governors are claiming that they are funding the security operations. So where is the Federal Government’s portion of the money going? If it is being appropriated by somebody, is that not a benefit?
Do you suspect some people wanting the insurgency to be sustained?
It is left for you to make your own judgement, whether somebody who makes this chunk of benefit would want it to continue or not.
You have been very active in politics, especially since 1999. You equally ran Presidential campaigns in 2003,2007 and 2011. In each of those elections, there was always a time-table when campaigns should kick off and end too. I am not sure that the Independent National Electoral Commission (INEC) has released the time-table for the 2015 general elections, and I am sure you know that some people have been campaigning, moving from one state to another. How do you see this?
It is very sad. But the PDP is a lawless party, inhabited by lawless people. They have no regard for law or order in this country. I say this because it is not time-table that is even the issue. There is no Electoral Act in place to regulate political activities. You must have an Act of the National Assembly in 2014, for the 2015 elections. It is there in the Electoral Act, that INEC has the powers to issue guidelines for elections, which is not there.But look at it; they forced Jega to make announcement on the schedule of elections when there is no Electoral Act. Do you think these people are serious? I don’t think they are. If you talk, they would send their attack dogs or SSS (State Security Service) to arrest you.
We know you have never been afraid of talking. Are you saying you are intimidated now?
Of course, yes.
You, BubaGaladima?
Yes. They had wanted to pick me
On what charges?
That I was too outspoken; I needed to be silenced. Only God knows what they would have done to me, with these days of poisoning people and helping them do a prolonged eventual death.
If you are really afraid, how come you are happy with going to the National Conference because I know you will talk when you are there?
Man is a political animal. I have elected to be what I am, so should I be until I die.
What do you think 2015 portends for the country?
I fear for the country
Why?
Jonathan is desperate.There is nothing under the sun that he will not do to be President.I am really afraid.
Do you foresee electoral malpractice in 2015?
They have always done that and we have always fought back and we have defeated them by adult suffrage.But they have taken over the government by force, by use of the military and judiciary. But that will not stop us because, for evil to triumph, good people must have kept quiet, and we are not ready to keep quiet. Everyday is for the thief; one day is for the owner. We are still chasing that one day.
Will that one day come in 2015?
We pray, we pray and we will put our efforts.
A lot of Nigerians have condemned this gale of defections in the political parties, especially within the Peoples Democratic Party (PDP) and the All Progressives Congress (APC). The impression out there is that there is no difference between the two parties…
(Cuts in) Who said there is no difference?
That is what I want to find out from you. Do you think there are differences?
Yes there are differences. One, those who defect from PDP to other parties, but specifically to the APC, know that they can only come to breathe fresh air, not Jonathan’s kind of fresh air.But there will be no material reward for them. In fact, what they will take is intimidation and harassment. But those who leave other parties, specifically the APC to PDP, do so because they collect large sums of money. So that is the major difference.
Can you prove this?
Why can’t they go to court and say BubaGaladima said they took money to defect? I know a friend who is richer by $2 million.
A senator?
I won’t tell you.